Posts by refiners fire

21

New Heavens and New Earth is 50 years old now. I Found it!

by plmkrzy in

anyone remember the old dark blue book "a new heavens and a new earth"?.

while i was boxing up all my books last night, i found it.

i thought i lost it for good.

refiners fire

Page 68:

TOM :

What was Russell's viewpoint on

this matter?

JOHN : Russell recognized that there was

a responsibility on all Christians who

claimed to be of the body of Christ and

who ever expected to be with him in heaven.

On the point of organization, as early

as 1881 Russell recognized that the servant

God said he would select to carry out his

work was the entire body of anointed followers

of Jesus Christ. He wrote in the

Watch Tower of that year :

"We believe that every member of this body

of Christ is engaged in the blessed work, either

directly or indirectly, of giving meat in due

season to the household of faith . "Who then is

that

faithful and wise servant whom his Lord

hath made ruler over his household," to give

them meat in due season? Is it not that "little

flock" of consecrated servants who are

faithfully

carrying out their consecration vows-the

body of Christ-and is not the whole body individually

and collectively, giving the meat in

due season to the household of faith-the great

company of believers?

Blessed is that servant (the whole body of

Christ) whom his Lord when he has come

(Gr.,

elthon) shall find so doing . "Verily, I say

unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all

his goods." "He shall inherit all things ."

In course of time this view was lost sight

of, and attention was focused more upon an

individual man .€ The view generally held,

that Pastor Russell himself was the "faithful

and wise servant" of Matthew 24 :45-47,

created considerable difficulty for some

years . The insistence that Russell had been

"that servant" led many to regard Russell

in what amounted actually to creature

worship. They believed that all the truth

God had seen fit to reveal to his people had

been revealed to Russell, and now nothing

more could be brought forth because "that

servant" was dead. This attitude caused

Rutherford to root out any remnants of

creature worship that might be left in the

organization."

SEE? RUSSELL ALWAYS SAID THE FDS WAS A CLASS. AFTER RUSSELL DIED SOME DECIDED RUSSELL WAS THE DISCREET SLAVE. RUTHERFORD SAW THIS WAS EVIL CREATURE WORSHIP AND ROOTED IT OUT. GOOD JOB JEHOVAH APPOINTED THE JUDGE TO RUN HIS ORG HUH??

21

New Heavens and New Earth is 50 years old now. I Found it!

by plmkrzy in

anyone remember the old dark blue book "a new heavens and a new earth"?.

while i was boxing up all my books last night, i found it.

i thought i lost it for good.

refiners fire

Pager 52:SOUND WARNING AGAINST SPECULATION

TOM : You stated earlier that Pastor

Russell was not too certain as to exactly

what would take place in 1914Was that

the general attitude of the Witnesses at

that time?

JOHN : There is no doubt that many

throughout this period were overzealous

in their statements as to what could be expected.

Some read into the Watch Tower

statements that were never intended, and

while it was necessary for Russell to call

attention to the certainty that a great

change was due at the end of the Gentile

times, he still encouraged his readers to

keep an open mind, especially as regards

the time element. We might read a number

of different excerpts from the Watch Tower

over the years to demonstrate this.

For instance,

as early as 1885 Russell writes in

the Watch Tower :

"Storm clouds are gathering thick over the old

world . It looks as though a great European war

is one of the possibilities of the near future .

Then follows a rather drastic picture of the

world situation, and the article closes with

these words :For these so-called kingdoms of God and their

armies, prayers are offered to God in the name

of him whose command is peace, good will

toward man, and who announces himself as the

one who shall set at liberty the captives and

proclaim love, peace and liberty throughout the

earth to all-for whose liberty he died .

Thank God the emancipation proclamation is

going forth ; shackles theological and political

begin to break, and the groaning creation must

shortly be delivered into the true liberty of

sons of God under the dominion of Immanuel ."

In 1893 the Watch Tower stated :

"A great storm is near at hand . Though one may

not know exactly when it will break forth, it

seems reasonable to suppose that it cannot be

more than twelve or fourteen years yet future ."

In 1894,:

"A few more years will wind up the present

order of things, and then the chastened world

will stand face to face with the actual conditions

of the established Kingdom of God . And

yet the course of the Church is to be finished

within the brief space of time that intervenes . "

Another statement in that same year is

significant: "As travail upon a woman with child" is the

inspired description of the forty-year day of

trouble, by which the Millennial age is commenced.

The panic of 1873, which affected the

whole world, was the first spasm, and since

then at irregular intervals the labor-pains of

earth have been experienced . Just now, we of

the United States are in the midst of one of

these throes of the groaning creation."

p W 1914, pp . 105, 106, 371 . q W Feb . 1885, p . 1 . r W 1893, p. 194. s W 1894, p . 56. t Ibid ., p. 162.

WHY COULDNT THOSE BROTHERS JUST CEASE THEIR SPECULATIONS AND NOT RUN AHEAD ALL THE TIME!?

21

New Heavens and New Earth is 50 years old now. I Found it!

by plmkrzy in

anyone remember the old dark blue book "a new heavens and a new earth"?.

while i was boxing up all my books last night, i found it.

i thought i lost it for good.

refiners fire

Ohhh! look what i found at "dirtclod" Yummy. Should keep me in posts for a week at least.

172

HELP ME...

by POOH in

i am posting this so that other jw will help me to figure out what i need to do.

my husband was born and raised as a jehovahs witness.

when we got married he never metioned it to me.

refiners fire

As to the other lady, Country gal, I know the dubs organization looks like it is comprised of deeply loving people and therefore it appears that the genuinely loving people of the world are drawn unto that organization. I also know that the Jehovahs Witnesses have a mathematical line of patter that appears to add up,(607 Bc plus 2520 equals 1914) . But neither of these things proves anything. Every cult Ive ever attended is full of deeply concerned loving ones looking compassionately and concernedly into your eyeballs and every cult has their own infallible mathematical proof of their prophet hood.

As to Simons Forum title being deceptive, well, so far as I am concerned, when one is fighting rotten deception, deception is a fair retaliatory weapon to be employed. I love JWs accusing apostates of deception. They openly publish that apostates are satanically evil and then say " You are being deceptive" as though we will apologize for being deceptive . Well of course we are deceptive, lol! We are Satanic! What would you expect?? Moral decency?. Of course Apostates are practising deception, Christ woman...what else would you expect. So why even mention it? Of course, the WT organization has never practised any deception have they? Course not. Theyve never misled anybody on anything and they always speak the absolute truth on every issue. ( As if there can ever be any such thing as "truth" )

The dubs come to my door, I talk to them, later they find out Im DF and then they say I have misled them. Well hot shit! They came to my door, I didnt ASK them to come. Am I my brothers KEEPER ? What, Im a DF apostate/ fornicator and Im supposed to say "oh brothers, Im DF you shouldnt come to this door because holy sprit might be withdrawn from you". Yeah right.

172

HELP ME...

by POOH in

i am posting this so that other jw will help me to figure out what i need to do.

my husband was born and raised as a jehovahs witness.

when we got married he never metioned it to me.

refiners fire

Pooh. Are you actually considering living a false life, pretending to be a good dub, going along, just to please your husband? There will be no end to it. Do you realize that? You will have to do fioeld service, mold your behaviour, conform to the dress code, keep up appearances. You would be better making a stand now and living your own life. Its what youy will have to do in the end anyway,eventually, better now than when you are 65 and have wasted 40 years in the cult for nothing.

22

Postcard from the top of the world

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

mrs ozzie and i have been trekking slowly but surely to the top of this magnificent globe on our latest r&r.

from the former soviet bloc we have headed by steamer hoping to try to get as near to the northern polar region as possible.

we got close enough, around the 75th parallel, but it sure is cold up here!

refiners fire

So thats where you are. I thought you had just spat the dummy cause you only got 38 responses to your most recent "wine of the month" thread. Lol. Have fun.

7

When Prophecy Fails - Part 2

by refiners fire in

concluding festingers observations of prophetic disappointment with a flying saucer cult in 1956.

the major period of expectation spanned 4 days, from 17th december when the faithful expected to be airlifted from the back garden to safety by flying saucers thru 21st december when the city and surrounding countryside would be inundated with floodwaters with total devastation the result.

the saucers were predicted to arrive at 4pm on the 17th..nothing happened:

refiners fire

"a good way to talk to witnesses without scaring them off".

Every cult member recognizes all other cults but their own cult As a cult. If that makes any sense. Pointing out cultivc behaviours from other cults and then tying it into witnesses is a method that works. Another good method is not playing the social role you are 'supposed' to play when chatting to people (dubs or Momos). This creates dissonance in them and makes them more receptive to change, and then you point out to them their own illogical thinking, their defensiveness, their justifications of the questions you ask.

With real cult recruiters that are trying to emotionally manipulate you, real time, thru guilt or fear, or are employing shuttle methods with conflictingh scenarios you just play them at their own game. You point out to them, say, every time they press the guilt button... "Hey! When you said that I felt a twinge of guilt". What a powerfull tool that would be, if someone were to deliberately try to press someones guilt buttons". or "Geez fellas, I feel...really mixed up here, I think its the way youve presented the information with one of you on one side being nice and the other one being aggresive, almost like a good cop bad cop routine"... etc. Always be talking on your agenda, not theirs.

5

Normal people join cults, says researcher

by GentlyFeral in

jw
friends

.

book extract i found while researching a different topic (cultural appropriation of native american religions by clueless white folks).. .

refiners fire

That book is by Len Oakes. Last I heard he was at Some institute called Cairn Miller here in Melbourne. Years ago he was in a Utopian Socialistic group in New Zealand called "Centrepoint". Commune type situation. That book youve hung up there is more about the personality type and development of the cult leader.

If youre interested in some reading might I recommend "Millenium Messiahs and Mayhem" by Thomas Robbins and Susan Palmer. Its a great book, has brief and very indepth essays on assorted crazies like Aum, and Waco but the best essay is on the "Solar Temple". A group that isnt talked about much in English speaking countries.

19

JGnat's comments on WT May 15, 2003 Christ Speaks to the Congregations

by jgnat in

wt may 15, 2003 christ speaks to the congregations study june 29, 2003

here we study about the seven stars talked about in revelation 2, whom the article states logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders.

* in revelation 2, the seven congregations are alternatively complimented for their strength, and slammed for their areas of weakness.

refiners fire

..."the seven stars talked about in Revelation 2, whom the article states “logically denote spirit-anointed overseers, or bodies of elders .”*"....

rather stranga analogy that one. It doesnt really seem to fit does it? As you said...how can a united body be discussed as seperated into seven entities. Note it refers to "Bodies of Elders" as distinct from the 144K. I wonder what THAT means. Like i said...., Bizzare

26

If you could have any actors career

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

lets say that you had the chance to have an actors career, which would you choose?.

not being the actor himself/ herself, but rather their career.. i think i would choose, in order:.

1) harrison ford.

refiners fire

Yep. Thats me alright.

"When I tell ya to take the magazines I mean take the Goddamn magazines"